i'm a walking contradiction.

[vertigo]

I think that many of the anarchists here who are attacking campershell are those who are not interested in seeing anarchy grow in popularity. I am not one of those.

And I havent noticed campershell "attacking" us or whatever. I HAVE, however, noticed Franc and Vertigo attacking him without anything that I see as a justification. I think you punks are letting your feathers get all ruffled over having to deal with the fact that a currently serving soldier has just deconverted to anarchy and has joined the forums.

Are you little girls afraid of something? Isnt this the very fucking MANIFESTATION of the opportunity for anarchy that we all claim to want?

NoDeity is, once again, showing a much more reasonable and rational response to the situation than just about anyone else in here.

I'm not particularly interested in anarchy becoming popular. Christianity is popular but almost no Christians behave in a Christian way. Socialism is popular but socialists don't behave in a socialist way. Labels don't constrain behaviour.

I don't care for lipstick anarchism, I want people to think independently, people who don't need me to pat them on the back and say "well done". And obviously this is not a political argument (if my meaning is understood). To me, anarchism is about the lack of or contingency of political legitimacy. It is the rejection of de facto political legitimacy in favour of critical analysis of whether the system suits me individually. Specifically, it rejects the bullshit claim that one should choose the lesser evil.

So anyway, for Campershell Dreams to say that he is an anarchist or will become one doesn't really say much, I don't think. I think everyone should be an anarchist, it doesn't need my congratulations. I worry that he would stamp on me to get out of a crowded theatre when some fool shouted "Fire" for no reason. Taking that a face value is as wrong as taking government propaganda at face value.

Anyway, I don't claim that what I say is representative.

[campershell dreams]

I worry that he would stamp on me to get out of a crowded theatre when some fool shouted "Fire" for no reason.

for no reason? what if the building is actually on fire? what about the part where i said i wouldn't stampede over anybody in such a situation? i just said it's somewhat ridiculous to place contemplating the moral ramifications of someone yelling "fire" in a crowded building over possible death or irreparable bodily harm, especially with the limited time you would have to make a decision in such a situation. i guess no one can force you to not take that as a death threat.

Taking that a face value is as wrong as taking government propaganda at face value.

prove it.

[vertigo]

I worry that he would stamp on me to get out of a crowded theatre when some fool shouted "Fire" for no reason.

for no reason? what if the building is actually on fire? what about the part where i said i wouldn't stampede over anybody in such a situation? i just said it's somewhat ridiculous to place contemplating the moral ramifications of someone yelling "fire" in a crowded building over possible death or irreparable bodily harm, especially with the limited time you would have to make a decision in such a situation. i guess no one can force you to not take that as a death threat.

Sorry, I didn't notice that you wouldn't stampede. What if the building is on fire? Most likely it just started, you'll almost certainly get out in time. We're talking about a theatre, not a world trade center. The risk is minimal.

Taking that a face value is as wrong as taking government propaganda at face value.

prove it.

I can't prove it. This is suppose to be about independent thought, remember? Either you choose to agree or not.

[MustangGT]

I'm not particularly interested in anarchy becoming popular.

FAAAAAIIIILLLLLLLLL!!!!!!! Enjoy your state!

Christianity is popular but almost no Christians behave in a Christian way. Socialism is popular but socialists don't behave in a socialist way. Labels don't constrain behaviour.

Do you also desire evolution to not be popular? Jesus Christ.

So anyway, for Campershell Dreams to say that he is an anarchist or will become one doesn't really say much, I don't think. I think everyone should be an anarchist, it doesn't need my congratulations.

But it needs your ridicule? And yet, even though you want everyone to be an anarchist, you dont have any interest in anarchy becoming popular...? Sorry if that doesnt make any sense at all to me whatsoever. I think youre confused, or youre at least failing to express yourself coherently.

[campershell dreams]

The risk is minimal.

then why are you worried about being trampled?

look, my main point was that, if someone shouted fire, and everyone was evacuating the building (let's assume in an orderly fashion, since that's how it goes most of the time), i wouldn't take the time to think critically about whether my decision to believe the warning at face value was moral or not. my justification for this is that i value life over death (especially death by fire). there is no parallel between this and lifelong statist indoctrination. i wasn't raised to believe that there was a fire in the building my whole life. it's really just a stupid comparison. i can't wrap my head around it.

[vertigo]

The risk is minimal.

then why are you worried about being trampled?

The risk from fire is minimal. The risk from a bozo who decides to knock people out of the way isn't minimal. I'd defend myself against any such bozo.

look, my main point was that, if someone shouted fire, and everyone was evacuating the building (let's assume in an orderly fashion, since that's how it goes most of the time), i wouldn't take the time to think critically about whether my decision to believe the warning at face value was moral or not. my justification for this is that i value life over death (especially death by fire). there is no parallel between this and lifelong statist indoctrination. i wasn't raised to believe that there was a fire in the building my whole life. it's really just a stupid comparison. i can't wrap my head around it.

If you meant that if, at the very time when a cool head was most needed, you'd simply not bother to think, then obviously that is a problem because I'd try to stop you and hopefully so would any reasonable person. Even lifelong indoctrination shouldn't prevent you from thinking, albeit in patterned ways.

[campershell dreams]

i would, with a very cool head, evacuate the building after my thoughts led me to the conclusion that it's not that big of a deal if the guy shouting "fire" was lying, but, on the other hand, i don't want to die in a fire. any "bozo" standing there, in the way, urging me not to listen to the warning or pay attention to the people evacuating, that this is a critical moment in which i need to think for myself, would only be subject to ridicule. seriously, how do you accomplish anything in life when you first have to analyze every event with profoundly unecessary skepticism and moral righteousness?

[vertigo]

how do you accomplish anything in life when you first have to analyze every event with profoundly unecessary skepticism and moral righteousness?

Accomplishment entails reaching a goal state. If your only goal was to stay alive by any means then you might choose to stampede. I want to formulate my goals before I act to accomplish them. Otherwise I could hardly call the outcome an accomplishment.

[Brad Reddekopp]

Why would you want to sell yourself as a weapon at the disposal of a warlike government?

[tism]

So what happened?

[Hierophant]

Hopefully, he reconsidered his life and decided to compensate for all the evil he supported by doing some good.