Normative judgements of Mutualism

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Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby chuba_5percent » Wed Nov 26, 2008 14:04

LeFranc wrote:Anarcho-capitalism is bad because capitalism is immoral, of course.


Even though derailing threads is pretty common place here I've decided to make a new topic: What are the normative judgements that Mutualism makes? Why exactly is capitalism 'immoral', defining exactly what capitalism means and what constitutes moral interaction.

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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby Hierophant » Wed Nov 26, 2008 15:12

Capitalism is immoral because it has led to what Tucker calls the four monopolies, which must be destroyed in order to bring about socialist freedom.

http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchi ... cker2.html

For these and other reasons Proudhon and Warren found themselves unable to sanction any such plan as the seizure of capital by society. But, though opposed to socializing the ownership of capital, they aimed nevertheless to socialize its effects by making its use beneficial to all instead of a means of impoverishing the many to enrich the few. And when the light burst in upon them, they saw that this could be done by subjecting capital to the natural law of competition, thus bringing the price of its own use down to cost, - that is, to nothing beyond the expenses incidental to handling and transferring it. So they raised the banner of Absolute Free Trade; free trade at home, as well as with foreign countries; the logical carrying out of the Manchester doctrine; laissez faire the universal rule. Under this banner they began their fight upon monopolies, whether the all-inclusive monopoly of the State Socialists, or the various class monopolies that now prevail.

Of the latter they distinguished four of principal importance: the money monopoly, the land monopoly, the tariff monopoly, and the patent monopoly.

First in the importance of its evil influence they considered the money monopoly, which consists of the privilege given by the government to certain individuals, or to individuals holding certain kinds of property, of issuing the circulating medium, a privilege which is now enforced in this country by a national tax of ten per cent., upon all other persons who attempt to furnish a circulating medium, and by State laws making it a criminal offense to issue notes as currency. It is claimed that the holders of this privilege control the rate of interest, the rate of rent of houses and buildings, and the prices of goods, - the first directly, and the second and third indirectly. For, say Proudhon and Warren, if the business of banking were made free to all, more and more persons would enter into it until the competition should become sharp enough to reduce the price of lending money to the labor cost, which statistics show to be less than three-fourths of once per cent. In that case the thousands of people who are now deterred from going into business by the ruinously high rates which they must pay for capital with which to start and carry on business will find their difficulties removed. If they have property which they do not desire to convert into money by sale, a bank will take it as collateral for a loan of a certain proportion of its market value at less than one per cent. discount. If they have no property, but are industrious, honest, and capable, they will generally be able to get their individual notes endorsed by a sufficient number of known and solvent parties; and on such business paper they will be able to get a loan at a bank on similarly favorable terms. Thus interest will fall at a blow. The banks will really not be lending capital at all, but will be doing business on the capital of their customers, the business consisting in an exchange of the known and widely available credits of the banks for the unknown and unavailable, but equality good, credits of the customers and a charge therefor of less than one per cent., not as interest for the use of capital, but as pay for the labor of running the banks. This facility of acquiring capital will give an unheard of impetus to business, and consequently create an unprecedented demand for labor, - a demand which will always be in excess of the supply, directly to the contrary of the present condition of the labor market. Then will be seen and exemplification of the worlds of Richard Cobden that, when two laborers are after one employer, wages fall, but when two employers are after one laborer, wages rise. Labor will then be in a position to dictate its wages, and will thus secure its natural wage, its entire product. Thus the same blow that strikes interest down will send wages up. But this is not all. Down will go profits also. For merchants, instead of buying at high prices on credit, will borrow money of the banks at less than one per cent., buy at low prices for cash, and correspondingly reduce the prices of their goods to their customers. And with the rest will go house-rent. For no one who can borrow capital at one per cent. with which to build a house of his own will consent to pay rent to a landlord at a higher rate than that. Such is the vast claim made by Proudhon and Warren as to the results of the simple abolition of the money monopoly.

Second in importance comes the land monopoly, the evil effects of which are seen principally in exclusively agricultural countries, like Ireland. This monopoly consists in the enforcement by government of land titles which do not rest upon personal occupancy and cultivation. It was obvious to Warren and Proudhon that, as soon as individualists should no longer be protected by their fellows in anything but personal occupancy and cultivation of land, ground-rent would disappear, and so usury have one less leg to stand on. Their followers of today are disposed to modify this claim to the extent of admitting that the very small fraction of ground-rent which rests, not on monopoly, but on superiority of soil or site, will continue to exist for a time and perhaps forever, though tending constantly to a minimum under conditions of freedom. But the inequality of soils which gives rise to the economic rent of land, like the inequality of human skill which gives rise to the economic rent of ability, is not a cause for serious alarm even to the most thorough opponent of usury, as its nature is not that of a germ from which other and graver inequalities may spring, but rather that of a decaying branch which may finally wither and fall.

Third, the tariff monopoly, which consists in fostering production at high prices and under unfavorable conditions by visiting with the penalty of taxation those who patronize production at low prices and under favorable conditions. The evil to which this monopoly gives rise might more properly be called misusury than usury, because it compels labor to pay, not exactly for the use of capital, but rather for the misuse of capital. The abolition of this monopoly would result in a great reduction in the prices of all articles taxed, and this saving to the laborers who consume these articles would be another step toward securing to the laborer his natural wage, his entire product. Proudhon admitted, however, that to abolish this monopoly before abolishing the money monopoly would be a cruel and disastrous police, first, because the evil of scarcity of money, created by the money monopoly, would be intensified by the flow of money out of the country which would be involved in an excess of imports over exports, and, second, because that fraction of the laborers of the country which is now employed in the protected industries would be turned adrift to face starvation without the benefit of the insatiable demand for labor which a competitive money system would create. Free trade in money at home, making money and work abundant, was insisted upon by Proudhon as a prior condition of free trade in goods with foreign countries.

Fourth, the patent monopoly, which consists in protecting inventors and authors against competition for a period long enough to enable them to extort from the people a reward enormously in excess of the labor measure of their services, - in other words, in giving certain people a right of property for a term of years in laws and facts of Nature, and the power to exact tribute from others for the use of this natural wealth, which should be open to all. The abolition of this monopoly would fill its beneficiaries with a wholesome fear of competition which would cause them to be satisfied with pay for their services equal to that which other laborers get for theirs, and to secure it by placing their products and works on the market at the outset at prices so low that their lines of business would be no more tempting to competitors than any other lines.

The development of the economic programme which consists in the destruction of these monopolies and the substitution for them of the freest competition led its authors to a perception of the fact that all their thought rested upon a very fundamental principle, the freedom of the individual, his right of sovereignty over himself, his products, and his affairs, and of rebellion against the dictation of external authority.
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby neverfox » Wed Nov 26, 2008 17:27

Guys, can be take a step back and make sure we are defining capitalism the same? Photonmaton, what's your meaning? I say thing because the word capitalism to some modern mutualists (Kevin Carson uses the term this way in most cases I believe) use it as a shorthand for "state capitalism". If that's the definition you go with, then the normative argument is no different from anarchism itself. In other words, it's just a way of explaining how you can oppose what people think of as a market with the real thing (a freed market in anarchism).

There are others, like me, you more often use it in the purer economic sense: a system where capital is assumed to be the firm (a firm being a legal designation for the party that is the residual claimant). This would then work in both state and anarchistic contexts.
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby Hierophant » Thu Nov 27, 2008 01:16

My definition of capitalism is: the economic system in place in the Western world whereby ownership of the means of production is in the hands of private interests, eventually forming a separate class which concentrates wealth and attacks individual freedom.
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby neverfox » Thu Nov 27, 2008 02:25

Francois Tremblay wrote:My definition of capitalism is: the economic system in place in the Western world whereby ownership of the means of production is in the hands of private interests, eventually forming a separate class which concentrates wealth and attacks individual freedom.


That's the start of a damn fine definition but I have to address one aspect of it. I think it's very important.

The fundamental myth that allows capitalism to survive is the myth that the "ownership of the means of production" is important to the determination of the residual claimant, the party that nets the value of the products minus the costs of the inputs. Ironically, it was a man named Karl Marx that pushed this line of thinking and inadvertently legitimized the arguments of the very capitalists he hated. Capitalists and State Socialists have been fighting ever since over who should own those damn means of production. They bought the myth. But being the residual claimant is a contractual role, not a property right. Capital itself carries no property rights when it is used in production.

Capital = Means of Production not Capital = Means of Production + Contractual Role as Residual Claimant

So from this it's clear that you don't need the means of production. You just need to be the residual claimant if you want to to avoid being "exploited" by non-productive wealth. And likewise, to appease capitalists, no property rights are being violated if they lose this mythical added contractual role. So let me propose a modification of your definition:

Capitalism is the economic system in place in the Western world whereby the contractual role of the residual claimant is wrongly assumed to be a property right associated with capital (thus capital-ism), allowing owners of capital to defend the system as seemingly protecting private property and to obtain the social power and expectation to hire labor. However, since private property (as even capitalists typically believe) is appropriated by labor, this system denies people the right to the fruits of their labor and thereby attacks individual freedom.

If we, as mutualists and other freed-market anarcho-socialists, are going successfully oppose capitalism, we can't afford to make Marx's mistake. Let's be the first active group of socialists that don't buy the myth. If we get this right, we could very well succeed in driving the point home where Marx failed.
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby Hierophant » Thu Nov 27, 2008 02:33

I don't know what residual claimant means.
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby neverfox » Thu Nov 27, 2008 02:54

the residual claimant, the party that nets the value of the products minus the costs of the inputs.


It's basically the point of any productive enterprise, the very reason people bother.
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby Hierophant » Thu Nov 27, 2008 03:44

I thought that the LTV said that price was going to tend towards the cost of the inputs.
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby neverfox » Thu Nov 27, 2008 23:46

I'm not speaking of a theory about prices (LTV as a measure of exchange-value) but about appropriation of quantities (LTV as a source of use-value which leads to property rights, aka the LTP or Labor Theory of Property). The residual claimant appropriates quantities both positive and negative, so it's a property rights question not a price question. What do I mean by "quantities"?

Let's say an enterprise produces 20 widgets by applying labor to 10 gizmos. The residual claimant (RC) appropriates three quantities:
The "positive" product X = 20 widgets
The "negative" products -AX and -L
-AX = the liability for 10 gizmos
-L = the liability for the effort and time of human labor

Notice that these quantities have an "apple and orange" nature and can't be added and subtracted from one another. This is why it's sometimes written as a vector (X, -AX, -L) to show that you can't do math on them directly but that they are grouped together. So "net" requires doing vector math. For example, if the RC already owned the gizmos that term would cancel out, i.e. you owe the liability to yourself. Likewise, if Labor is the RC, they will already own their labor, (0, 0, L). (X, -AX, -L) + (0, 0, L) = (X, -AX, 0). This is labor's product. This is what labor-as-RC would "net", the property rights to 20 widgits and a liability to the owner of the 10 gizmos you used up (with all relevant depreciation and time-preferences accounted for).

So I can see why my wording before would be confusing. To make it less confusing (I hope), I'll reword my definition of RC:

Residual Claimant: The contractual role that determines who appropriates the property right to the positive product and the liabilities for the negative product (depleted capital and/or exerted labor) net of what is already owned by the RC. The RC role rises from the relevant contractual landscape and is most easily thought of, in simple two-examples, as the party that "does the hiring".

Note nothing has been sold yet, so price, and thus the LTV, isn't even in the picture. Once that happens, then you switch to talking about net incomes of the various parties. But what is clear is that the person that has the right to sell the product is the RC because the RC appropriated the property right. This is why it and not the "ownership of the means of production" is vital to a definition of capitalism. Capitalism treats capital as the RC and assumes the owner of it should "do the hiring" of the other factors.

Here is a table showing the income distribution of two scenarios, one where capital is the RC (capital hires labor) and the other where labor is (labor hires capital):
property-income-small.jpg
from Contract and Property in Economics by David Ellerman
property-income-small.jpg (29.65 KiB) Viewed 1925 times

p = market price or exchange-value
wL = wage
r = time-preference rate of interest

You should note that the income distribution is the same in both cases. This is a key point because the main objection I hear about labor being the RC is that capital is taking risks and thus deserves more of something (control, extra money beyond interest etc.). This shows how this "fear" is completely unfounded. But if it's the same, why can't it be either way? That's a big topic but in short, it has to do with the inalienability of the responsible agency of human action and it's role in property appropriation.

Does the LTV-as-measure play any role in this then? Well, it depends on which interpretation of the LTV is under discussion. Looking at the four boxes on the left: you are referring to the lower box, what I've described above is the upper box, modern capitalism is the second box and normative attacks on interest are the third box:
ltv-ltp.jpg
from Contract and Property in Economics by David Ellerman
ltv-ltp.jpg (49.73 KiB) Viewed 1925 times

So the LTV-as-measure (both descriptive and normative) is frankly just not very insightful except that it shows that the rate of interest will affect what remains for labor. And in this sense it does gives someone reason to focus on state interference that causes it to be higher than it would in a freed market. But that's a lot of work to get to a fairly simple concept. Therefore the Marxian LTV is not worth the time of anyone concerned with justice of capitalism itself as opposed a disequilibrium caused by the state. The latter isn't really a disagreement between anarcho-capitalist and anarcho-socialists. So I would say that mutualists and others just don't need to waste time trying to fight about what amounts to a price theory (which is silly when the market will determine the price anyway) when it's property appropriation theory that matters (something we can do something about by defending our rights).

Likewise, the marginalists were wrong too (not in the analytical sense but when trying to apply it to property rights) but I'll get into that another time. For now, let's just say that the third way, the LTP, is the way that is consistent with the very theories of property that capitalists use and defend in all other contexts. So the fact that they violate it in the process of production involving other's labor leaves them with no ground to stand on so to speak.
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby Hierophant » Fri Nov 28, 2008 00:23

How is the concept of residual claimant distinct from ownership of the means of production?
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby neverfox » Fri Nov 28, 2008 02:55

Francois Tremblay wrote:How is the concept of residual claimant distinct from ownership of the means of production?


Great question because the belief that they are the same is the fundamental myth of both capitalism and socialism (non-Ricardian). Marx believed it too, making him ironically one of capitalism's most famous defenders (albeit inadvertently).

The RC is a contractual role. It's simply a set of legal responsibilities. It has nothing to do with owning anything. Here is an simple example to show why they aren't linked: If I lease a widget-maker and use it to make widgets, I own the widgets (and I'm responsible for paying the lease) not the person who leased me the widget-maker. I never owned any means of production but I'm the RC.

These types of obvious determinations of RC status go on all the time in our society today. They aren't theoretical games. The only reason that there is a large nearly one-to-one correlation between ownership of the means (capitalists) and RC status (capitalists get the product, pay labor a wage etc.) is simply because capital almost exclusively wins the "hiring conflict". But this is where libertarianism comes in. Just because capital can win the hiring conflict, doesn't mean the resulting RC role is juridically valid. Only a human being, not capital, has responsible agency and this isn't alienable.
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A positive and scientific morality, we have said, can give the individual this commandment only: Develop your life in all directions, be an "individual" as rich as possible in intensive and extensive energy; therefore be the most social and sociable being. (Jean-Marie Guyau)
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby Hierophant » Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:54

Uh, okay, but loaning the MOP seems like more of an exception than the norm. How much of the MOP are loaned, really? How is that really relevant?
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby neverfox » Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:58

Francois Tremblay wrote:Uh, okay, but loaning the MOP seems like more of an exception than the norm. How much of the MOP are loaned, really? How is that really relevant?


That's my whole point. Not much is. That's what has to change. I wasn't arguing that it's the most common, just that it was common enough to provide intuitive examples that expose the myth that MOP and RC are necessarily linked. It's relevant because if the link is a fiction, then capitalism can't claim things have to be the way they are. Throw on a belief that you can't sell yourself into servitude or alienate your responsible agency and viola. The column "capital hires labor" becomes anti-libertarian and drops out, leaving only the "labor hires capital". This means worker-control (not worker-ownership as an MOP focused approach implies and worker here, to head off the straw men, includes all workers, from the idea men to the line guy) or independent-contractor-type interactions.
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A positive and scientific morality, we have said, can give the individual this commandment only: Develop your life in all directions, be an "individual" as rich as possible in intensive and extensive energy; therefore be the most social and sociable being. (Jean-Marie Guyau)
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby Hierophant » Fri Nov 28, 2008 13:04

I'm not really following you. How does showing that MOP ownership and RCing are not necessarily linked disprove capitalist claims?
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Re: Normative judgements of Mutualism

Postby neverfox » Fri Nov 28, 2008 13:23

Francois Tremblay wrote:I'm not really following you. How does showing that MOP ownership and RCing are not necessarily linked disprove capitalist claims?


I said it disproves the claim of the link which is just a tautology. To go to the next step and disprove capitalism is compatible with libertarianism, you have to appeal to inalienability of human responsible agency, i.e. opposing master-servant contracts (which is not the same as opposing intra-labor delegation, specialization and so forth). People should be able to manage their work conditions and delegate authority like anarchists do, not like statists do. In other words, breaking the MOP-RC link just refocuses the argument away from property rights of means (which gets you nowhere) back to where is belongs: contractual roles. Once the focus is there, the argument turns to the simple concept, already held by capitalist when they defend their own property, that labor appropriates its fruit, (X, -AX, 0), because only labor is a responsible agent (things, like capital, can't be juridically responsible). This implies worker control because master-servant relationships are anti-libertarian (unless you're Robert Nozick, I suppose). The capitalist is imposing himself as responsible agent and master when it's his capital, not him that is the real factor in production. If labor instead is in control, there is not master-servant relation since capital, a thing, can't be a servant. The capitalist himself is not pulled wrongfully into the picture so he is not a servant either. All is well and the pieces fall together.
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A positive and scientific morality, we have said, can give the individual this commandment only: Develop your life in all directions, be an "individual" as rich as possible in intensive and extensive energy; therefore be the most social and sociable being. (Jean-Marie Guyau)
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