The halfway mark between my piracy and software companies...

[HighlyAnnoyed]

Complaining about the price of software (especially games) that you aren't willing to buy is retarded. It's just an excuse to justify your piracy. I guarantee you that most people that pirate software wouldn't buy it even if the price was lower. Just admit it. You're stealing software because you can get away with it and are too cheap to pay for it. They're games for christ's sake. You don't need them to survive.

[Dadalama]

Complaining about the price of software (especially games) that you aren't willing to buy is retarded. It's just an excuse to justify your piracy. I guarantee you that most people that pirate software wouldn't buy it even if the price was lower. Just admit it. You're stealing software because you can get away with it and are too cheap to pay for it. They're games for christ's sake. You don't need them to survive.

if that was the case I'd never buy any software at all...

[HighlyAnnoyed]

Complaining about the price of software (especially games) that you aren't willing to buy is retarded. It's just an excuse to justify your piracy. I guarantee you that most people that pirate software wouldn't buy it even if the price was lower. Just admit it. You're stealing software because you can get away with it and are too cheap to pay for it. They're games for christ's sake. You don't need them to survive.

if that was the case I'd never buy any software at all...

How much do you buy vs. how much do you steal? (in dollars). In the end, you are too cheap to buy it even if you do pay for some of it.

Setting your own criteria to keep you from stealing software as opposed to buying it is arrogant and a very very lame excuse. If you don't want to pay the asking price, just don't buy it. But, that doesn't justify your theft. Apparently the software you pirate is worth something to you because you took the time to steal it. Didn't you? I'd really like a new 370Z but the asking price is too much. Think I should steal one?

[Dadalama]

Complaining about the price of software (especially games) that you aren't willing to buy is retarded. It's just an excuse to justify your piracy. I guarantee you that most people that pirate software wouldn't buy it even if the price was lower. Just admit it. You're stealing software because you can get away with it and are too cheap to pay for it. They're games for christ's sake. You don't need them to survive.

if that was the case I'd never buy any software at all...

How much do you buy vs. how much do you steal? (in dollars). In the end, you are too cheap to buy it even if you do pay for some of it.

Setting your own criteria to keep you from stealing software as opposed to buying it is arrogant and a very very lame excuse. If you don't want to pay the asking price, just don't buy it. But, that doesn't justify your theft. Apparently the software you pirate is worth something to you because you took the time to steal it. Didn't you? I'd really like a new 370Z but the asking price is too much. Think I should steal one?

I have bought well over $2000 in video games since I had access to free stuff. Probably would've been less if I waited for a few of them. Probably stole an equal amount.

[Nokes]

Complaining about the price of software (especially games) that you aren't willing to buy is retarded. It's just an excuse to justify your piracy. I guarantee you that most people that pirate software wouldn't buy it even if the price was lower. Just admit it. You're stealing software because you can get away with it and are too cheap to pay for it. They're games for christ's sake. You don't need them to survive.

if that was the case I'd never buy any software at all...

How much do you buy vs. how much do you steal? (in dollars). In the end, you are too cheap to buy it even if you do pay for some of it.

Setting your own criteria to keep you from stealing software as opposed to buying it is arrogant and a very very lame excuse. If you don't want to pay the asking price, just don't buy it. But, that doesn't justify your theft. Apparently the software you pirate is worth something to you because you took the time to steal it. Didn't you? I'd really like a new 370Z but the asking price is too much. Think I should steal one?

Technically it's not theft. A pirated game or software is just a copied version. For it to be out and out theft the original creator would have to lose their original copy. For instance if you owned, say, Age of Empires on a CD and I came to your house and took your CD away, that would be theft. Though maybe you have a strong case for intellectual property?

That said, I'm man enough to admit that I have a habit of downloading software and games just because I can. I think it's kinda slimey sometimes because I really am thankful and do realise that a lot of work goes into commercial games and software. In the end though, I find it in my self interest to get things for free though.

[Hierophant]

How is it theft? What exactly is it that is being stolen?

Profit? If so, then there's no theft.

[HighlyAnnoyed]

It amazes me the justifications people will come up with for stealing intellectual property. Someone shouldn't have to explain to you that when you buy movies, music, and software, your are not buying the media it is on. You are buying a copy of the intellectual property it contains. And, when you make unauthorized copies of the intellectual property, that is theft.

[Dadalama]

It amazes me the justifications people will come up with for stealing intellectual property. Someone shouldn't have to explain to you that when you buy movies, music, and software, your are not buying the media it is on. You are buying a copy of the intellectual property it contains. And, when you make unauthorized copies of the intellectual property, that is theft.

Personally I could give to shits about the ethics of what I'm doing. The whole post is little more than where I draw my line. How it would be more convenient for me to buy than pirate. It isn't morality, the whole fucking thing can be looked upon as driven by spite.

[Hierophant]

Yea Randy, I know the capitalist conceit about it. "Intellectual property," which is a sham. Barring the fact that property as a concept is also a sham, "intellectual property" is a double sham because you cannot own information, only physical objects. It is as ridiculous to say that you can own an idea as to say you can own the air or the ocean.

[HighlyAnnoyed]

It amazes me the justifications people will come up with for stealing intellectual property. Someone shouldn't have to explain to you that when you buy movies, music, and software, your are not buying the media it is on. You are buying a copy of the intellectual property it contains. And, when you make unauthorized copies of the intellectual property, that is theft.

Personally I could give to shits about the ethics of what I'm doing. The whole post is little more than where I draw my line. How it would be more convenient for me to buy than pirate. It isn't morality, the whole fucking thing can be looked upon as driven by spite.

Ah, see now this is where we get to the interesting part of this discussion. Personal morality. As you may or may not have noticed, I never brought it up. I never said I think stealing is wrong. I only said that copying intellectual property is stealing. I see many people make excuses for stealing intellectual property and try to seperate it from stealing physical property. That is what I have a problem with. I don't think someone really needs to do this unless they think stealing is wrong and are looking for a reason to justify their actions as acceptable.

Let me ask you: do you think stealing physical property is wrong? Do you think shoplifting from Wal-mart is wrong? Does it depend on what you are stealing? Do you think stealing from your neighbors and/or friends is wrong? Do you think kicking the shit out of Francois and taking all his stuff because he doesn't agree with the concept of property is wrong? Where do you draw the line if there is one?

[Dadalama]

It amazes me the justifications people will come up with for stealing intellectual property. Someone shouldn't have to explain to you that when you buy movies, music, and software, your are not buying the media it is on. You are buying a copy of the intellectual property it contains. And, when you make unauthorized copies of the intellectual property, that is theft.

Personally I could give to shits about the ethics of what I'm doing. The whole post is little more than where I draw my line. How it would be more convenient for me to buy than pirate. It isn't morality, the whole fucking thing can be looked upon as driven by spite.

Ah, see now this is where we get to the interesting part of this discussion. Personal morality. As you may or may not have noticed, I never brought it up. I never said I think stealing is wrong. I only said that copying intellectual property is stealing. I see many people make excuses for stealing intellectual property and try to seperate it from stealing physical property. That is what I have a problem with. I don't think someone really needs to do this unless they think stealing is wrong and are looking for a reason to justify their actions as acceptable.

Let me ask you: do you think stealing physical property is wrong? Do you think shoplifting from Wal-mart is wrong? Does it depend on what you are stealing? Do you think stealing from your neighbors and/or friends is wrong? Do you think kicking the shit out of Francois and taking all his stuff because he doesn't agree with the concept of property is wrong? Where do you draw the line if there is one?

I don't believe in right or wrong.

besides, franc is right about how ridiculous "intellectual property" is. Atleast in my opinion.

[Hierophant]

Stealing from Wal-Mart? Who are you stealing from? The non-existing corporate person? That's like saying you can steal from Santa Claus.

Get a grip, Randy. You're out of touch with reality.

[Brad Reddekopp]

The usual libertarian/anarchist argument against the validity of intellectual property is that it amounts to a government-enforced monopoly.

For example: "Many libertarians consider copyright and patent to be forms of enclosure – illegitimate government creation of exclusive privilege by prohibiting most individuals from accessing commons. Copyright and patents are government-granted monopolies on production, and no better than a government-granted monopoly on producing food or oil."
- from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertaria ... l_property

For a more detailed look at the matter: http://libertariannation.org/a/f31l1.html

[Hierophant]

This may also be useful:

http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/libhe/libhe023.pdf

Although there are a few mistakes. For some reason, they keep calling Tucker an individualist anarchist instead of a mutualist. I don't think they understand the difference between the two.

[Dadalama]

This may also be useful:

http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/libhe/libhe023.pdf

Although there are a few mistakes. For some reason, they keep calling Tucker an individualist anarchist instead of a mutualist. I don't think they understand the difference between the two.

I thought individualist anarchism was an umbrella term for anything anarchy that didn't fall under collectivism (anarcho syndicalism, anarcho communism ect...).